Behind the Scenes of Tyson Foods’ Massive Digital Transformation

Several CGs are following suit on cloud-driven transformations like Tyson Foods has undergone in order to boost efficiencies and reduce costs. However, cloud adoption can be an arduous task for legacy companies not born in the cloud or those who were not early adopters of tech-forward strategies. Devin Graham, VP of cloud and infrastructure at Tyson Foods, shares key takeaways from the organization’s first-hand experience with cloud transformations, which looked to remove repetitive, manual processes to automate workflows and improve safety and quality across the enterprise. Learn what it takes to achieve this level of transformation, from motivational leadership to a multi-pronged approach to overhauling your data infrastructure. Discover how to navigate a cloud-led transformation. Devin Graham of Tyson Foods shares learnings from the innovation journey, what the cloud landscape looks like, emerging tech beyond the cloud, and the role of risk and compliance along the journey. Lisa Johnston: Hello, everyone. Welcome to today’s “Tyson Foods' Transformation into Digital-Speed Innovation” webinar. I'm Lisa Johnston, the senior editor at CGT, and I'm excited for you to join us. Today, we're going to learn how Tyson has been navigating the strategies that are required for a cloud-led transformation, including where cloud adoption fits into Tyson's larger innovation strategy. Joining us for this discussion are Devin Graham, VP of cloud and infrastructure at Tyson Foods, and Suresh Karra, AVP, practice lead at Infosys. Devin is a technology executive with more than 25 years of experience in partnering with business leaders to understand the requirements and value of technology to drive value realization through sustainable processes and organizational improvement. He has extensive experience leading teams and projects in support of multinational initiatives around the world. Prior to his current role, he held roles at Tyson such as chief technology officer, VP of program management, and VP of shared services. Suresh has helped clients achieve modern innovation goals by implementing transformative solutions for more than 20 years. In his current role, he's responsible for creating cloud strategies and roadmaps using a range of tools, platforms, accelerators, and solutions to accomplish transformation objectives. Devin and Suresh are going to kick things off with some background on Tyson and then move into the main discussion. With that, gentlemen, the floor is yours. Devin Graham: Thank you for the opportunity to join you here today. We’ll begin with a little bit about Tyson. Typically, when I'm at a university recruiting, I ask what people know about Tyson and the answer almost always comes back “Tyson is chicken.” That's what the brand is associated with. However, as you can see, we've got many other brands, including several iconic brands in the industry: Hillshire Farm through an acquisition, Ball Park, Jimmy Dean, State Fair, Wright Brand bacon, and a few of the larger brands that you'll see in your stores. Our scale that we operate is quite large. We have more than 150 facilities that we support day in and day out – many of them are domestic, but international as well. We have about $47 billion in revenue and more than 137,000 team members around the globe. From a scale standpoint, we have four quadrants around our main segments. In prepared foods we produce and process 73 million pounds of product each week, which includes 47 million head of chicken per week, 155,000 head of cattle, and 470,000 head of hogs. To think about the scale — 155,000 head of cattle — a semi-truck on the highway that's hauling beef carries approximately 60 head per truck. Doing the math, on 155,000, over 60, that's a lot of trucks at our facility each and every week. The scale that we operate is tremendous. We have an incredible team that supports the organization from an IT perspective and continues to grow. I've been with Tyson for over 20 years. When I joined the company, I came through an acquisition of IBP, which was the beef and pork segments of the business today. At that time, we had $26 billion in revenue. There’s been tremendous growth over the years, our FY22 will certainly eclipse FY21. There’s a tremendous amount of growth in the company, both domestic and international. When we look at some of the larger initiatives in our business, we're looking to return over $1B by FY24. The three pillars that we're looking to bring those savings back to the company, include operational efficiency, agility in our plants themselves, and digital solutions and automation that will be implemented and deployed over the years. Taking repetitive, manual tasks out of the process and automating as much of that as we can as well as improvements in safety and quality are key to enabling those. A lot of technology underpins those initiatives in our facilities and we’re looking to return that to the bottom line for the organization. A bit about Tyson's IT vision. We are focused on these three pillars. Looking at standard and global platforms, we’re trying to have the foundation in place, across the organization globally, to support the growth of the company and continue to scale. If we turn the clock back a bit, in 2019, we went live with a SAP S/4 implementation in AWS, which supports the poultry and prepared segments of our business. That was a tremendous undertaking and a huge lift to the organization with regard to the foundational capabilities that platform has brought. Layered on top of that, there’s been a lot of work in the analytics space. The majority of the solutions in this space are cloud-native and leverage cloud infrastructure. The bulk of our data footprint resides in GCP and BigQuery, as well as some outlying SaaS-type solutions that have been deployed to enable the organization. The third pillar is around automation and robotics. We’re looking to drive efficiencies into facilities by automating what we can and trying to reduce labor costs — increasing efficiency and safety for team members. There is a lot of effort in those three pillars, and those are the three underpinnings for almost everything we do in Tyson IT. My role here at Tyson is to lead the cloud and infrastructure team as well as the cybersecurity team. All things infrastructure, cloud-related, and cybersecurity are managed by my organization. Suresh Karra: Devin, thanks for the overview about Tyson Foods, the journey, where it's going, and where you want to go — in a nutshell. During our discussion, we’ll go a little deeper into each of these aspects to gain a better understanding of what you have done so far that's successful, and what you're going to do right in the future. We hope to make this session a guiding light for anyone who is embarking on a transformation journey. I say this with a certain amount of thought because Tyson is not a traditional company, but a company based in Middle America. It's an old company, in a good way. It's been around for a while, and is in the business of physical assets, factories, manufacturing, etc. This is not a company that was born in the cloud, or doing things from a technology-oriented perspective from the very beginning. That is the reason why the challenges that Tyson faces, Tyson IT faces, the problems it needs to fix, obstacles to surmount are dramatically different than some other companies. Let’s begin by laying the foundation as to what the word transformation means. What is the meaning of transformation to Tyson Foods? What is the meaning of transformation to you? Many people see transformation in different ways. For some, transformation is a change in the status quo, whereas to others, it's a completely new business model that creates a completely new geography. The truth lies somewhere in the middle. Graham: From a transformation standpoint, I think of it as the small t and the big T. The small t is some of the things that may transform a business process, or the way things are done at a smaller scale, such as using automation, workflow in what used to be a manual process, and trying to automate and transform the way you do things. Then, there's transform with a capital T, where it has a much bigger scope and impact. There were a few things in history, although not necessarily technology-related, that had a transformational impact. Going back in Tyson's history, IBP — the fresh beef and pork industry — transformed the beef industry in the late '60s. They used to ship cattle to butchers as a whole side of beef. However, in the late '60s, we transitioned that business model into a boxed beef model. Rather than a whole side of beef, it was small primals that were cryo-vaced, placed in a box, and shipped to the customer. The industry changed there. Poultry had a similar case with the fresh tray pack, which transformed the way the business operated, as well as the way customers and consumers consumed product and what was on store shelves. From a technology standpoint, transformation is fundamentally changing business processes and the way we do things. It’s how we think about transformation — be it in finance, HR, manufacturing — it’s looking for ways to disrupt a process, improve it, and use technology and innovation to make it stronger. Karra: The small t and big T of transformation, I like that, it’s a great analogy because 70-75% of companies use a combination of the small t and big T. About 70-75% of a company’s focus is on the small t — the process change — to bring more efficiencies, which is transformative. Then, 30-35% becomes the big T where you are changing an entire business process, or entering new geographies and customizing to those geographies. You mentioned in the '60s and '70s Tyson transformed the entire industry. Now, in the modern era or the last five years, do you think there was a significant time or a very discernible change in Tyson business' attitude towards leveraging technology as the transformation element? Was that a slow, gradual change where it was too glacial to notice a traumatic shift? How did that happen? Graham: Over the years, technology has been a key enabler to our organization and has allowed it to scale the way it has. In my 20 years at Tyson, that momentum shift came in 2017/2018 when Scott Spradley joined the organization as the head of technology. He came from HP, bringing a tremendous amount of energy and passion around digital transformation. One of his earlier talks to the organization was about born-digital companies versus analog companies. Thinking of Tyson, we’ve been around since 1935 and have come through that journey. We were certainly a born analog-type of company, but his leadership and focus with the executive team to think about transformation, not just from a business and process standpoint, but to get technology underpinning those to accelerate the speed at which we can transform, was key. That was a point in history for us. The work we've done to this point – we've been at it pretty hard for the last three years – is getting a lot of the foundation in place so that we can build upon. That's been key to the start of our transformation journey. Karra: That’s great and it resonates with what we are also seeing. We see that about 80-90% of the time it is the right leadership. Most of the time, it’s new leadership. Not always, but many times it is new leadership that comes in and motivates the existing people as well as the rest of the organization. This is in tune with what we are seeing also, but has your journey started? Have you reached a steady state? Is it done? Obviously, most transformation is not done — it’s never done, it’s a multi-year journey — but where are you in this journey? Graham: Transformations are multi-year journeys for certain. We’re a good three years into our journey, and have at least three more to get a lot of the heavy lifting out of the way with a lot of sizable initiatives. Thinking back to the work in our facilities, automation, and analytics that we want to deploy to increase value and take cost out of the organization, there's certainly years of work there given our scale. It's tremendous. I’d estimate we're halfway into our multi-year journey. Karra: Let’s shift to the cloud. Cloud is ubiquitous and that is exactly why I didn’t start the conversation on the cloud. Cloud is not a transformation. It helps with the transformation journey, but the cloud by itself is not transformative. Where do you see the cloud? Obviously, the cloud is a big part of transformation efforts, but where do you see it playing that role? The way you are dealing with the hyper-scalers — AWS, Amazon, AWS as your GCP, or any of the other cloud providers, SaaS providers — where do you see all of these converging and culminating? Graham: For us, it's multi-prong. SaaS is a big part of the journey — there are a lot of point solutions that are purpose-built for particular process improvements and fit within our organization. There are those point solutions, and then there's larger things like Workday or others that provide a platform for the enterprise to operate on. SaaS is an important piece of the journey in order to get our infrastructure out of data centers and into the cloud — that’s been key for us from an agility standpoint. Then comes the innovation that takes place in those environments. Keep in mind, SaaS can be a bit slower to bring new technology, new releases, new capabilities to the forefront, so those might be on a 6- or 12-month schedule. Karra: Can you spend a few more minutes on the cloud adoption piece? There is the infrastructure as a service (IaaS), which is what all the clouds started with. That is the bread and butter, so to speak, even today. Then, there is the platform as a service (PaaS), and then there is SaaS. It appears that SaaS, although it's not a lift and shift, and is a slightly longer journey, gives you better bang for the buck. Can you talk about what you are actually seeing in IaaS, PaaS and SaaS, from a cost or an ease of migration, as well as a value perspective? Graham: Starting at the top of that stack, we have SaaS applications. When there's a great fit, they're typically pretty quick to implement. It's a matter of configuration working through integration with source systems and then understanding where data is, how to get it back, etc. It's been an important part of our journey. I don't remember, off the top of my head, how many SaaS solutions we've deployed over the last four years —it's been quite a number. Thinking about platform as a service, our work in that space is largely in the data areas. BigQuery, solutions like Palantir and others, provide a platform to build on, which has been key. That's where, if you've got unique requirements in your organization you're trying to fit a solution to, those platforms provide a tremendous amount of service because all the underpinnings are managed for you, allowing you to come in at the platform-level. Then, infrastructure as a service is that lowest level of capability, but still gives you a fair amount of agility. If we work back to develop more cloud-native applications, you'll see a shift out of that infrastructure into more services. For Tyson, all three have played an important part of our journey. Karra: As you started your journey — like you mentioned, maybe around three years of this journey are done and you're looking at another three years — it's not something that has a hard start or end. In that aspect, are you thinking mentally about stage gates? In other words, to identify you’ve accomplished A, B, C, and have done this part of the journey, but still have to accomplish D, E, F — ergo there’s two/three more years to go — would you be broadly able to say that you’re passing through these four stage gates. Is that fluid, or how are you thinking about this? Graham: There's a few that are pretty clear. One of the initiatives is around exiting the majority of data centers — I should say, for the most part, exiting them. There may be a few services that remain, but that's a clear gate we pass through. As we migrate all of the applications we plan to into the cloud, that is a gate. Karra: Getting rid of your data centers is one big stage gate. Most importantly, that also is a discernible change in the transformation. It's a sense of accomplishment because that is something that's big, bulky, and tangible that you are getting rid of. Putting that together becomes a pivotal point and then you work forward and backward to be able to define that journey. Would that be a good approach? Graham: I would agree wholeheartedly, yes. Karra: Going a little further into this, it looks like there are multiple moving parts to this. There is your organization that is embarking on a transformation journey. There are the cloud providers, the hyper-scalers, the fast providers, there are other vendors managing the facilities, managing other aspects in the factories, etc. Then, there are the systems integrators providing the services on top of all of these. There are a lot of moving parts. Is there a successful “Grandma’s Recipe” that makes all of these work together in the same direction, toward the same goals, toward success? Graham: Having that common vision, common purpose, and goals is key. Communication amongst all of them is important. Then, allowing each to play to their strengths. The providers bring a lot of capability and strength to the table — the cloud providers and integrators have experience and expertise. Those are three of the key items to highlight. Karra: Shifting gears a bit, there is this clear dichotomy between innovation and transformation. We’ve spoken about transformation. Transformation is about what you have today, how do you make it better? Things that you would organically go to, whether it's a new business, a geography, or a new business model. However, where does innovation fit in? Is it the same? Are you treating it as transformation and innovation, or where does innovation fit in and what is innovation? Graham: For many at Tyson, innovation is one of the key enablers to transformation — they’re not necessarily the same thing. They're obviously related, but the innovation that comes enables a new and fresh thought around business process and capabilities, which enables a lot of that transformation to take place. Karra: Where does technology feature in your innovation journey? With all these newfangled ideas — I call them newfangled in a very cautious manner as AR, VR, metaverse, all these aspects, seem newfangled — are you looking at those specifically from an innovation perspective, or do you consider them a little immature, and plan to wait and watch how they grow? Graham: For Tyson we leverage some of those newer technologies in a particular use case to get experience and understand what else might be out there that isn't obvious from the beginning. We've used a fair amount of computer vision in our processes and are trying to understand what various use cases we have for that. It could be product quality, labeling — we use it in one of our case-ready facilities to put the proper label on a tray pack piece of product. It’s able to understand what that is by vision and applies the correct label. We have use cases in safety where there’s a certain area of the plant that people are not supposed to be in, and using computer vision alerts and manages those types of environments, which is key. Karra: Based on some of the use cases that you've spoken about, I'm already getting ideas about our next webinar, which will likely be about the innovative use cases on the shop floor that technology is helping. To round out the innovation theme, the technology piece, there is a lot of research and development going into Impossible Meat, plant-based meat alternatives that don't look like meat, and plant-based meat alternatives that look exactly like meat. Alternative nutrition sources, even without mentioning examples, does that cause a dramatic change in the way IT has to operate or cater to the business' needs, or is that a logical organic addition to whatever you have? Graham: I would say both. In some cases, we need to have the agility and nimbleness to respond and support those types of initiatives. In other cases, many of those products can be streamlined into our existing processes. Think about alternative proteins; we have some products under the brand Raised & Rooted that are very much meat-like — there's a chicken nugget that's pretty incredible from a taste and texture standpoint. You wouldn't realize you're eating a plant product. There are certainly opportunities to scale and leverage a lot of existing technology to manufacture, produce, package and ship those solutions. Then, there's opportunities to deploy new technology in those spaces as well. We see those as important markets and offerings that we need to bring to market. However, given the scale, it's a small percentage of what we do as an entire company. Karra: That brings me to my next question and it becomes more significant. As you look at alternatives, growing and enhancing the existing business, risk, security, compliance, sustainability, all these aspects become extremely important — especially risk because you are dealing with food products. Food products have shelf lives and are susceptible to certain pathogens. As you are in the food industry, sustainability becomes an extremely big factor. How does IT deal with all of this? What does IT do? How does it influence, control, or make it better? Graham: Those are all important things for Tyson Foods. Sustainability is one of our key principles and is woven into all we do at Tyson. From a technology standpoint, our solutions — be it a process or particular piece of technology — enable that. An example of simple things that a lot of companies do today, is automating animal welfare checks. Getting away from a paper process into a system that provides data which you can put analytics on top of, including trending, reporting, those types of things. At scale, it's an enablement for the business. Think about energy usage, water usage, all those are key for us as we move forward. The technology that helps us understand how a plant is balanced, from a water standpoint or an electrical standpoint, is key to being able to set proper goals and make improvements in the process as we continue to lead the effort in sustainable use. As we started the journey into the cloud, a lot of work around privileged access on the technology front was key. We still have opportunities there and work to do, but it's something that you have to have on the front end, and you need that realization to be successful. Otherwise, it can be a slippery slope because the speed at which you can move — if you don't have some of those foundational things in place, those guardrails in place — can get you into trouble quickly. Karra: Another question on the technology aspect. Tyson traditionally is not a company that uses technology for the sake of technology, whether it is some newfangled computer language or any of that. The reason being, you don't have a boatload of money to spend. What would you say the current technology stack looked like prior to transformation? As you transform today, adopting more cloud and SaaS products, how has that technology platform evolved from an operating system perspective, from a development language perspective, those aspects of it? Graham: The tech stack is representative of our scale and growth through acquisition. Companies like ours, that have grown the way we have, have a fair share of divergence with regards to platforms, etc. I envy companies that are sitting on a full Linux platform stack or a complete Windows stack — that migration into the cloud is much easier. Through acquisitions, we've got Teradata’s AS/400, the common Linux Windows, and there is a fair amount of AIX in our environment as well. That migration to AWS includes a fair amount of retirement or re-platform depending on the particular solutions. Trying to drive those to cloud-friendly technologies and platforms has been key. It's the whole 6r process as we go through the migration. It's been key to understand, for those platforms that can't be lifted and shifted or migrated into the providers, what options there are and how that translates into additional work to get those platforms out of our environment and into a cloud. Karra: When we work on this and see that it's a disparate landscape, architecturally as we provide solutions, they start looking at these aspects. It sometimes becomes a challenge to solve because the more complex it is, the solution is going to be more complex, but that gives more satisfaction when you solve a problem. It makes a lot of sense because one of the philosophies that we have worked on, and one of the philosophies that we have always wanted to issue, is to bring this together and be able to make it simpler. The hope today is to be able to answer a lot of questions for people, and be able to leverage some of these experiences, some of the blueprint, in a much easier manner. From our perspective, Infosys' philosophy has always been: How do you ensure that someone does not start their journey from scratch? How do you make sure that you are jumping off of the shoulders of giants? The entire Infosys Scoreboard Paradigm is all about just that. How do you leverage things, whether it's experiences, or anything for that matter? That brings me to the last question: What have your learnings been? What would you have done differently? In 20-20, retrospective vision, what would you have done differently? Graham: One of the key things is the breadth of the impact it has across the IT organization. There are a few things that we have done that I would encourage people to do. There's a few cases where didn't spend as much time on some of these areas as we could have, or should have, in hindsight. This goes without saying, but for folks on the team that don't know where they'll fit in the future, having that realization that there's tremendous amounts of opportunities out there, new tools to learn, and new technology to consume is key. It energizes them with regard to the journey. The upfront work on strategy is important, it's one of those things you need to spend enough time on. A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow, but there are a few key considerations to that. Are you doing a single provider, single hyper-scaler, or multiple? What licensing considerations do you need to have? What's your appetite for spending commitments? Those types of things are key to understanding upfront. Governance is key. That’s an area, in hindsight, of spending a bit more time on understanding exactly what the tagging strategies and account structures need to be. We’ve gone through about three or four iterations of account structure. Some of that was advice we received early on from various people and had some extremes with regard to account structure. Early days, before Control Tower and similar tools came to light, it was a significant process to build accounts, build the plumbing between BPCs, and have it work the way it needed to. Making sure you have a good handle on that is key. Really, thinking through those governance items is important. Then, for the organization as a whole, having a team that is an enablement team to help people come along in the journey and answer questions. If they can stay far enough in front of me, the rest of the organization can be the Sherpas, or the guides, through this journey, which is critical as well. Otherwise, you wind up with an organization going in 10 different directions — it’s important that there be some consistency. In hindsight, don't underestimate the governance and that most of the providers call it a “cloud center of excellence.” That is a key enabler for the journey, for certain. Karra: Devin, there’s a pun here, but these are amazing nuggets of information. I'm sure people are going to appreciate this because these capture about 90% of the successes or failures of cloud journeys that we have seen at other places, too. It resonates perfectly with what we are also seeing. I’d like to quickly summarize what we have discussed so far: First, as you look at this, transformation is a small t and a big T, and a combination of the same. It's not one or the other – that’s how you are looking at it. Second, the most discernible point is a leadership change that has brought in the newer ideas and the newer module to be able to embark on a transformation journey. The leadership change is something that significantly influences this. Third is the cautious nature of innovation as you would use it. You test it, see it, but you would not make that the center point. Fourth, this is a journey and you have a discernible, large, tangible win that you could showcase as the midpoint in the journey, and then plan forward and backward from there. That gives you your stage gates, which is an amazing, brilliant point. Fifth, the evolution of the technology stack. Most companies will struggle with that. There will not be a single answer to it. It's a journey that you see. This is all the do’s and don'ts that you spoke about. Johnston: Thank you so much for sharing that insight, especially around the role that leadership and partnership plays in the process, and of course, for that wonderful pun. Devin, can you speak to how you integrated data science into Tyson? It's difficult to take an analog organization and build that proficiency. How did you start and what kind of staffing needs did you consider? Graham: That has been a challenge as we started on that journey, looking for data scientists and trying to understand what that career looks like at Tyson Foods. As with many companies, you start peeling that onion back and understanding where all the use cases are for it — be it in forecasting or understanding labor constraints — there's a tremendous number of avenues to pursue the value of data science in the organization. When we hired our first data scientist, probably about three years ago, given the economy and the jobs in that space, we fill a team and then lose some people and then we grow again. It's been a bit of an ebb and flow, but we see the clear value in it. It’s one thing to have the talent, but the other thing is to make sure that you have the systems and data availability to act upon that, do the analysis and work. Starting with the foundation of what we call data at Tyson, then layering on those capabilities of data scientists and others to take advantage of those, has been key for us. Johnston: You had referenced this before, but can you dig in a little deeper on how you see hyperscalers and tech consulting partners playing a symbiotic relationship in the transformation journey. Graham: For us, it’s about understanding where the strengths are and taking advantage of that. Making certain that we're all sharing that common vision, common purpose playing to the hyperscalers' capabilities and strengths. Then, the operational, day in and day out management, be it a provider or another partner, is key. Karra: It was summarized perfectly — one plus one plus one should be much greater than three. If that’s not the case, the hyperscaler or systems integrator and the client are not doing something right. There are certain capabilities the hyperscalers bring in, certain capabilities the systems integrators bring in, and certain capabilities the clients already have. The idea is to be able to pull all of that into one stew pot and get something amazing out of it. That is what will make a difference. Every client is different. The same template that we use at one client will definitely not work at another client, which is exactly why it's not something that is cut once and used everywhere. You have to get into the DNA of the client and be able to showcase those differences. That is extremely key to a successful transformation. Johnston: Devin, in your experience, do C-level executives look at the cloud as an initiative to impact their balance sheet in a positive manner? Graham: That's a tough one because in the business, somebody's often sitting in front of an application, using a system or a process and they truly have no idea where it is. The SaaS solution: Is it on premise? In the cloud? They likely don't know and don't care either. Our experience would be if somebody talks to you and says that moving to the cloud is cheaper, less expensive, and can do away with all the hardware and data centers, I would question their thoughts on that because you can’t paint all that with a broad brush. There are certain things you can do in the cloud that absolutely are cheaper, that pay for themselves quickly. But there's the other side of the coin with the benefits you get — agility, the ability to take a lot of the infrastructure worries and effort out of your hair and let someone else manage that. There's certainly benefits there. If you're picking up infrastructure and moving that to the cloud as is — a flat lift and shift — it's not dramatically cheaper. In some cases, it may actually be more expensive depending on licensing models and other things. If you re-architect something and refactor it for cloud native, and you have Elastic Compute and those technologies enabled, it's an incredible machine. It's a balance for certain. Johnston: Suresh, can you close us out with some parting thoughts on that? Karra: One thing I've heard in an extremely positive manner, is that whenever there are conversations with business leaders from Tyson Foods and leadership from Infosys, we see that it is always an easy conversation. That’s because the right facts are presented to them in the right way and having that right discussion. They're open-minded about this, which goes a long way. That resonates with what we are seeing in the industry. According to a PwC survey, three out of four business leaders are looking at transformation, cloud, and all these aspects as something that would move the needle on the balance sheet, on the perception of the company, on how employees look at it, on how clients look at it. To your point, this is something that non-IT leadership is consciously looking at. Johnston: That's great thoughts to leave us with. I'd like to thank both of our speakers for giving us their time and subject matter expertise. I'd also like to thank Infosys for sponsoring today's webinar. Thank you for giving us your time today and have a great rest of your day.

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